Archive for supernaturalspoilers.myfastforum.org This is a forum for the show Supernatural where members come and discuss spoilers about upcoming episodes.
On 09/10/09 come here to discuss the premiere of Season 5
kristyd
AHHH it's freaking tmw!!
Spoilerwolf
okay, I'm reading updates, and I have to ask... HOW THE F*CK IS DEAN MICHAEL'S F-ING SWORD??!!? I smell water and a shark
Supernatralfan
Wow. Okay, I have very mixed feelings. I’m very disappointed in the ending. First you go and make me so proud of Dean, like he’s my Dean from S1-3 again and he’s sticking by Sam. Admitting you know, it happened, we both messed up and we were both played, let’s not dwell on it. Let’s just get it done. And I just wanted to hug him and scream, “That’s my boy!” Then you go and have him trash all the good feelings and hope I’d had by having him say at the very end in yet another Dean monologue that he can’t trust Sam, can’t forgive him, that he chose a demon over him and yada yada, let’s place all the blame for everything on Sam. Really? No seriously, really? B/c I think that’s crap. And Dean should darn well know better by now. I’m very ashamed of him at the moment and again am currently w/out my former love for him until he can get his head out of the ground and admit he had faults too and made some pretty big mistakes of his own. He let the angels play him just as much as Sam was played by Ruby and it just BOILS my blood that once again Dean is passing the freaking buck. Now Bobby I’m proud of and loving right now. He had me scared there when he started saying all those awful things to Sam and about Sam, but I figured he was possessed. So glad to know that was the case. And a father’s (so to speak) love can apparently break a possession. That’s twice now Dean’s been at deaths door by a father figure and escaped. Man the boys got beat to heck there. And Bobby is such a bad patient, That’s right Bobby, you don’t give up, you just get better. He’s an idjit.
I still dunno how they got on that plane or who did it. Cas says he didn’t know, Zach says he doesn’t. Very weird. And btw, I still hate Zach w/a passion. Freaking evil! I was so cheering when Cas showed up to take them down. Too bad he let Zach run, but w/a healthy dose of fear. That’s good. And Cas can fight now! Freaking right. About time to let him win some. And he’s taught Dean some great moves like the banishing spell. Great job in giving them protective symbols on their ribs. Not just Dean, but Sam also. That goes a long way w/me. I’m glad everyone, Dean, Cas, Sam, are telling Zach and his pals to stuff it. And rightly so. I’m also pretty miffed that while everyone is placing blame on Sam, tho really I expect it from Zach to deny his fault in it and point the heavy finger at Sam, that Dean is the freaking vessel of Michael. I’m just... not sure how to take that. It’s like Dean is being set up to be the big hero and Sam is the scum on his shoe. I’m not loving that at all. This show is and I’d hoped would always be about brothers, not SuperDean and begging for a crumb of warmth and good storyline Sam. Get over it. I am. That’s all I’m gonna say about that...
Becky I loved. She’s just so funny. Poor Chuck still on the mend from exploding Cas, and then he says “They’re real” “I knew it!” ahahah. She’s nuts. “You’re Sam.” “And you’re ... not what I expected.” “Becky, can you stop touching me?” “No.”
The poor guy Lu found to be his vessel. I feel awful for him. Like Zach using Sam and Bobby and pain against Dean, he used Nick’s own pain against him to get him to say yes. The cradle leaking blood was so disturbing. He says he doesn’t lie, that he’s not the bad guy. Right. He’s a manipulative, evil jerk just like Zach and his goons. If any of what he said was true he wouldn’t have been playing mind games w/the guy. You just get chills and you know bad things are coming.
I was gonna rate this epi 9 or 10 till the ending pissed me off. Now I'm going 7.5 on it.
kristyd
Zach needs to freaking die I swear to GOD!!
Give Dean a little time you all know he's going to feel bad for what he said to Sam.
Supernatralfan
You know Kris, I want to believe that, but they've made Dean into a total jackass. It started at the start of S4 and it's not stopped. He shouldn't need to feel bad for what he said b/c he shouldn't have said it to begin with. And if he was the Dean I'd loved in the past, he wouldn't have. I'm starting to hate this Dean and I don't like that. They better fix it, fast, or I'm gonna have to find a new fav character b/c there's only so much judgemental, superior Dean I can take.
Yes. I'm still annoyed at the ending...
I agree on Zach. I so wanted Cas to end him!
kristyd
Look at it this way Amy about the ending, Dean Winchester was actually honest with his feelings. Maybe that's the key to fixing them, being honest like that with each other.
kristyd
Though in the hotel Dean did admit they both messed up.
Spoilerwolf
Dean's on my sh*t list right now He's got a LOT of begging of his own to do before I give him a freaking hug and cookies *pets poor Sam and gives him milk and cookies*
Sjonnir
Oh wow jeeze so many things where do I start? Ok lets start at the begining, the blood seal anyone else besides me wonder what would have happened if they had just messed the blood up? Next the motel lord I was getting irritated with Bobby I couldnt believe hed say things like that so of course I let out a major sigh of relief with the possesion revelation. Kripke is making me twitchy about Sammy's powers they had best not be gone, not after all Sam went through. Next the Micheal Sword revelation, gotta say I was a little dissapointed, I was hoping for something a little better than another possession. Also wow thumbs up on Lucifer though I do think they actually might have overdone it on the sympathy, I actually found myself really liking heck Ill be honest I actually really felt bad for the poor guy. Lets see what else, big thumbs up on the new Meg she got that beautiful sadism across very well but I have to wonder what the point in ditching the meatsuit is. Also I find it very interesting that Sam picked up the hex bag trick from my darlin Ruby , it makes me wonder what other tricks he picked up from her, could we possibly be seeing a black magic Sammy in the works? Finally Im sorry but while I respect that Dean has every right to feel betrayed I think that was just a little over the top.
kristyd
On another note, Dean JUST SAY NO, NOT TO DRUGS, BUT TO BEING A ANGEL CONDOM!!!!!
Spoilerwolf
Sjonnir wrote:
Oh wow jeeze so many things where do I start? Ok lets start at the begining, the blood seal anyone else besides me wonder what would have happened if they had just messed the blood up? Next the motel lord I was getting irritated with Bobby I couldnt believe hed say things like that so of course I let out a major sigh of relief with the possesion revelation. Kripke is making me twitchy about Sammy's powers they had best not be gone, not after all Sam went through. Next the Micheal Sword revelation, gotta say I was a little dissapointed, I was hoping for something a little better than another possession. Also wow thumbs up on Lucifer though I do think they actually might have overdone it on the sympathy, I actually found myself really liking heck Ill be honest I actually really felt bad for the poor guy. Lets see what else, big thumbs up on the new Meg she got that beautiful sadism across very well but I have to wonder what the point in ditching the meatsuit is. Also I find it very interesting that Sam picked up the hex bag trick from my darlin Ruby , it makes me wonder what other tricks he picked up from her, could we possibly be seeing a black magic Sammy in the works? Finally Im sorry but while I respect that Dean has every right to feel betrayed I think that was just a little over the top.
Nicely put Jon
kristyd
Zach's on my **** list omg I hate him!!!
Think our new buddy Lucifer would kill him for me?
And guys I am not sure but the promo next week I swear to god I saw Jo's eyes black.
kristyd
God I freaking hate Dean being Micheal's Btich thank god Dean said no.
Sjonnir
kristyd wrote:
Zach's on my **** list omg I hate him!!!
Think our new buddy Lucifer would kill him for me?
And guys I am not sure but the promo next week I swear to god I saw Jo's eyes black.
No they were, and lordy that would be awesome if Lucifer just smacked his bald butt into the dirt for getting uppity like that.
Supernatralfan
Yep, she's possessed. Lol. That'd be funny.
Anyone else kinda get grossed out after Meg kissed Dean and he's like, "Is that peanut butter?"
I liked the chick who played Lu. I thought she did a great job. I think he was peddling lies, but he did it well.
Spoilerwolf
Her eyes went black? She might not be possessed.
Here me out.
Reading the episode synopsis, the town's people all think that each other is possessed. So Jo's 'black eyes' might be someone's drug addled mind interpreting that, just like they interpret Sam to be a demon (but then, Sam actually has shown to have black eyes when using his abilities so...)
Supernatralfan
Spoilerwolf wrote:
Dean's on my sh*t list right now He's got a LOT of begging of his own to do before I give him a freaking hug and cookies *pets poor Sam and gives him milk and cookies*
I have to agree. I'm pretty freaking ticked at Dean right now and it's going to take some doing for me to forgive it. Sam ain't the only one in need... W/him being such a world class dick, is it any wonder Sam decides to stop hunting w/him? I mean, would you stay around to be treated like that?
I was thinking of making Sam a kick me sign....
Oh right, yeah I suppose it could be an illusion. But since she had Sam tied up along w/Rufus, I thought maybe... Hm. Now Idk what to think.
Spoilerwolf
Supernatralfan wrote:
Spoilerwolf wrote:
Dean's on my sh*t list right now He's got a LOT of begging of his own to do before I give him a freaking hug and cookies *pets poor Sam and gives him milk and cookies*
I have to agree. I'm pretty freaking ticked at Dean right now and it's going to take some doing for me to forgive it. Sam ain't the only one in need...
I was thinking of making Sam a kick me sign....
A 'kick the puppy' ? Sign you mean Seems appropriate.
Sjonnir
Supernatralfan wrote:
Spoilerwolf wrote:
Dean's on my sh*t list right now He's got a LOT of begging of his own to do before I give him a freaking hug and cookies *pets poor Sam and gives him milk and cookies*
I have to agree. I'm pretty freaking ticked at Dean right now and it's going to take some doing for me to forgive it. Sam ain't the only one in need... W/him being such a world class dick, is it any wonder Sam decides to stop hunting w/him? I mean, would you stay around to be treated like that?
I was thinking of making Sam a kick me sign....
Oh right, yeah I suppose it could be an illusion. But since she had Sam tied up along w/Rufus, I thought maybe... Hm. Now Idk what to think.
Im right there with yall, Dean irritated the snot out of me there.
kristyd
*hides*
Supernatralfan
Sjonnir wrote:
Im right there with yall, Dean irritated the snot out of me there.
It's been happening a lot more than I care to think about since S4. I'm ready for them to give it a rest already. They like angst, we get it, now we're freaking drowning in it. It's not drama anymore, it's annoying. Dean is fast falling down the ranks in my book. I miss the Dean that was a supportive and understanding big bro. That loved Sam no matter what.
Dean confessed he tortured souls in hell. Sam NEVER turned his back on Dean b/c of that. But Sam makes a mistake thinking he can pay Dean back and save the world by trusting Ruby, get's played by her and angels as did Dean, and Dean's all "It's 100% on you Sam." Get over yourself Dean! You are not perfect and you are far from blameless. What on earth has gotten into him? He's been different since coming back. I think the part of himself he left in the pit is the part that makes him have common sense and compassion for Sam. He's just acting so unlike himself. I don't understand what's happening to them anymore. I miss my boys as a family unit. Not them fighting each other.
Spoilerwolf
I mean, yeah, definitely, Dean does have trust issues with Sam - and I 'get' that. It's going to take time for them both to reconnect - but I felt Dean went above and beyond there (from what I've heard) and you DON'T KICK SOMEONE WHEN THEY'RE ALREADY CRAWLING ON THE FLOOR WITH FREAKING OPEN WOUNDS AND POUR SULPHURIC ACID ON THEM!!!
Does anyone NOT get why Sam would go 'darkside' now? I certainly get it. If I had to live with what he's done, and sit next to someone who holds contempt towards me, day in and day out (deserved or not) I think I'd have to leave eventually too. And guess who will open their arms wide to receive Sam?
Damn rights: Lucifer.
So Dean, this is a message from a woman who knows her stuff - pull your head out of your ass, stop pushing aside conversations with your brother, and actually LISTEN to him! You have a big enough head as it is, you can let something solid go in there (like, I dunno, talking?) and let it float around in there, maybe rattle some big brother instincts loose and deal with your issues with Sam in a HEALTHY WAY!!!!
You don't want Sam? Someone will take him off your hands, and you'll have yourself to blame for it.
Spoilerwolf
kristyd wrote:
*hides*
Lol. Sorry Kris, you may want to tuck yourself into a safe house while we vent our frustrations out - which unfortunately, are at Dean at present
I don't want to be pissed at him, but I am. Sam was, yes, a moron for trusting Ruby - a manipulated moron with the best of intentions, which tend to go down the tubes if your last name is Winchester. But Dean's 'holier than thou' attitude, and 'it's all your fault!' will never work - he's got blame in the situation they are in, and he is NOT handling it in the best of ways.
That seems to be normal for Dean.
Sam's at least making attempts to apologize, realizes that he's made a HUGE mistake, and a part of him deserves 'some' of the anger that Dean's been directing to him.
But enough's enough.
There's justified anger, and then there's self righteous contempt at another. Dean's in the latter category, at present.
Supernatralfan
I have a feeling you're very right Jess. And that's JUST what happened last season w/Ruby. Dean kinda had a hand in pushing him into her arms at the end there. It all makes sense. Idk if he's too proud, too stubborn or too clueless. Or maybe he's damaged in some way now from his time in the pit. Idk. But something is very wrong w/Dean in how he's been acting. Very.
I mean, Bobby got it didn't he? And he's very close but not as close to Sam. So if anyone shoulda understood, it should have been Dean. But again - it wasn't.
kristyd
*Whispers from hiding place cause I feel EDG'ish* Those boys have no idea how to vent in a heathly way.
Spoilerwolf
kristyd wrote:
*Whispers from hiding place cause I feel EDG'ish* Those boys have no idea how to vent in a heathly way.
No they don't Kris
lol. An EDG (of which I've seen many of their replies tonight already) are GLAD and HAPPY that Dean said what he did - that they think Cas and Dean will be "like brothers - moreso than Sam and Dean" by the end of the series. They LOVE that Sam had a ton of verbal tongue lashings.
THAT'S an EDG. Feeling like your favourite character is getting both guns and wanting to stay out of a verbal tirrade? That's just a Dean fan getting out of the way
JarednJensengirl
Spoilerwolf wrote:
kristyd wrote:
*hides*
Lol. Sorry Kris, you may want to tuck yourself into a safe house while we vent our frustrations out - which unfortunately, are at Dean at present
I don't want to be pissed at him, but I am. Sam was, yes, a moron for trusting Ruby - a manipulated moron with the best of intentions, which tend to go down the tubes if your last name is Winchester. But Dean's 'holier than thou' attitude, and 'it's all your fault!' will never work - he's got blame in the situation they are in, and he is NOT handling it in the best of ways.
That seems to be normal for Dean.
Sam's at least making attempts to apologize, realizes that he's made a HUGE mistake, and a part of him deserves 'some' of the anger that Dean's been directing to him.
But enough's enough.
There's justified anger, and then there's self righteous contempt at another. Dean's in the latter category, at present.
I agree with you Jess. 100%. I can see both sides but it shouldnt be all on sam. It was very dean like to say he couldnt believe sam choose Ruby over him but cmon Sam was totally NOT in the right frame of mind at that time. I really dont want to sound like Im making excuses for him it's just to him he thought he was doing an honest to god (no pun intended ) thing and he could save dean and keep him safe.
I know it's gonna be hard for them to get back to one another and it seems like sam will just follow along without questioning dean. I think it's gonna be tense for a while for them both but it would be nice to see what dean would do if Sam were in trouble soon lol
Supernatralfan
Sadly I knew the EDG's would.
Okay, did anyone else find it way cute when Chuck nailed Sam w/that plunger and Sam's like "Jeeze, ow!"
And Chuck's like, "Sam, you're okay?"
"Well, my head hurts"
Spoilerwolf
Sam IS in trouble in the next episode, being tortured. So we'll see what Dean does - I'll either literally toss him in the sh*t house, or I may actually give Dean a brownie - if he's a decent boy.
kristyd
Spoilerwolf wrote:
kristyd wrote:
*Whispers from hiding place cause I feel EDG'ish* Those boys have no idea how to vent in a heathly way.
No they don't Kris
lol. An EDG (of which I've seen many of their replies tonight already) are GLAD and HAPPY that Dean said what he did - that they think Cas and Dean will be "like brothers - moreso than Sam and Dean" by the end of the series. They LOVE that Sam had a ton of verbal tongue lashings.
THAT'S an EDG. Feeling like your favourite character is getting both guns and wanting to stay out of a verbal tirrade? That's just a Dean fan getting out of the way
I do agree he was harsh, but like I told Jon to me Dean seem from the start to be in like this "Solider" mode, know what I mean. He did not even want to stick around for Bobby, he wanted to get started, so I feel yes he was harsh to Sam and Sam owes him back big time in the honest department, but maybe he was still in such a mode and did not want to I guess I can put it like this.. "Care and share"nicely in a heathly way.
Amy, Jess, Jon, I'm not being mean am I, I mean I half way agree with all three of you I just saw it different so I hope you all won't be mad at me.
Supernatralfan
It's okay Kris. We won't rip you up for not agreeing.
kristyd
Thank freaking pie!!
Spoilerwolf
Man it got quiet in here
Please guys, speak your mind! Even if you don't agree with mine, or somebody else's, you're more than welcome to share. We don't bite.... hard
Supernatralfan
Right. We take all views. No need to be shy. I mean, we can't always agree can we?
So anyone wondering whatever became of Lu's sword? They haven't brought it up again since Anna toasted Uriel w/it. I thought maybe in this one when they talked about Mike's that it'd come up.
Sjonnir
Supernatralfan wrote:
Right. We take all views. No need to be shy. I mean, we can't always agree can we?
So anyone wondering whatever became of Lu's sword? They haven't brought it up again since Anna toasted Uriel w/it. I thought maybe in this one when they talked about Mike's that it'd come up.
Im not sure but featherbags new pig sticker looked exactly like "Lucifers Sword" to me and did the same thing so Im not sure if that wasnt just a mistake on Kripkes part or a handwave.
XxsupernaturalchicxX
I haven't seen the episode yet! I'm talking a freakin' math quiz right now. Any hurt!boys in this episode?
Hopefully I'll be able to watch it in an hour!
Spoilerwolf
Yeah, Sam gets his face punched in by a girl, Dean gets stage four stomach cancer, and Zachariah breaks Sam's leg and takes away his lungs
Vanessa
Well, let's see...where to start...
I actually loved this episode (mostly) up until the last darn minute. Then the writers broke my heart in two.
The beginning with Dean and Sam being transported to the plane, etc. was a tad confusing but I could deal with it. The scene with Chuck was great as we'd all seen it would be. AND, of course, the scene with Becky the crazed fangirl was outstanding. I think I read somewhere that people were worried Kripke was making fun specifically of SamGirls. I don't in any way think that's the case. I think the writers are simply poking fun at fans--and fangirls--in general.
The scene with Bobby saying such mean things to Sam ripped at my heart. I suspected then it wasn't truly Bobby but was really happy to see that bear out. As far as Dean not saying anything or jumping to Sam's defense...I dunno...to be fair--Dean did try to stop Sam from saying anything/apologizing/confessing to Bobby. And Dean looked absolutely miserable while possessed Bobby was talking. Maybe he just figured that Bobby would "come around" after he cooled down a little. Oh, and Bobby stabbing himself? Wow. I thought that was quite a powerful scene.
The scenes with Lucifer finding his vessel were a bit to long and boring for my liking. I wanted more Winchester time.
Like others have said, I HATE ZACHARIAH with a passion. I want him GONE, GONE, GONE. I did thoroughly love the scene though where he broke Sam's leg (OUCH--that crunch) and gave Dean stomach cancer, and took Sam's lungs. I was proud of Dean for standing up and saying NO. Even if it costs them their lives.
For once, I was happy to see Castiel show up. I enjoyed him squaring off with Zach and perhaps literally putting the fear of God in him. I loved how he ordered him to heal both boys and then carved the sigil on both their ribs.
It gave me hope...for about two seconds...
Because then came the last minute of the show. I had loved everything up until then. That last scene killed me. I hated what Dean was saying and yet, I totally understand it. He's still crushed by Sam choosing Ruby over him. And I cannot, in all honesty, blame him. He feels betrayed and rightly so.
Yet, I know very well what his words were doing to Sam. Sam looked devastated. And rightly so. Which leads us to a hellish impasse.
Everyone wished Dean would talk more--would share more--and when he did, no one liked what he had to say.
percysowner
I haven't watched OTHOAP for a while, but did Anna HAVE Michael's sword? I thought she killed Uriel with a regular sword or a piece of rebar and she did it because only an Angel can kill another Angel. I didn't think it was Lucifer's sword.
jacklebug
Anna had Lucifer's sword. From the looks of things last night, I think Cas has it now. That must be what he was using on those angels in the storage facility.
As for the rest of this episode, now we know how Lucifer took over that poor man's body for his vessel. He took advantage of his personal tragedy. How sad is that?
I'm not surprised Bobby was possessed. I didn't think he'd ever purposefully be so hurtful towards Sam. I wonder if he'll ever be able to walk again, or if we'll be seeing him in a wheelchair from now on. People who know the Winchesters have a way of getting hurt or killed if they hang around them too much.
Dean's statement to Sam at the end was upsetting, but expected. Sam did pick Ruby over him, and that's a very difficult thing to overcome, especially considering the end result. I think they will patch things up eventually, but it will take a lot of work.
The new Meg was pretty good. She was suitably creepy and snarky. Of course, now that she's left that meatsuit, there's no telling who she'll be in next. Could be that same body, or somebody completely different.
It looks like SPN God is starting to take a little more action now. I'm guessing He is the one who put the brothers on that plane and put Cas back together. Who else would have enough power to do something like that?
And the angels want Dean to be Michael's vessel. I thought that was a pretty good way to balance things. We now know how Michael figures in, Dean has the option of being a vessel but he's still just a human and right now, it doesn't look like he'll be too willing to be anybody's vessel, so everybody's satisified.
Supernatralfan
I get so mad when Dean throws stuff up in Sam's face like a hypocrite. Sam didn't chose Ruby over Dean anymore than he chose Cas over Sam. Sam had a different idea of how to end things, which by default included Ruby. It wasn't like he was gonna go off and make it happen on his own when he needed her to make it happen. He OFFERED for them to do it together, he, Ruby and Dean. And Dean said no. It's Dean's own damn fault he went off half cocked since he wasn't there to watch how things went down. B/c he was too stubborn and self-important to consider going with. Zach and Ruby needed the boys apart, and Dean played right into that. So for him to toss that out there, yeah, I wasn't really happy w/him. I wasn't happy w/the ending in general.
I wasn't surprised talking to my friend Amber today that she felt the same. She said, "I loved it till the end and then I wanted to cry. And I wanted to yell. If I was Sam I'd have told Dean to shove his forgiveness and his trust. He's such a hypocrite. Sam didn't get into that situatuion alone." Exactly. He didn't. And it makes me crazy when it's all, let's blame only Sam. Total bunk. I'm just so tired of it and ready to get my brothers and my Dean back.
She loved Cas' fight scene too, lol. She laughed when I said I cheered and she agreed she was rooting for him too. And the Bobby part made her cry.
I think it was God as well who pulled the out and who saved Cas. It makes the most sense. And Zach looked pretty scared when Cas hinted just who did. Idk what he had. It looked a bit short for the sword Anna had didn't it? More like a knife? It happened so fast I really couldn't tell.
jacklebug
According to Entertainment Weekly, Supernatural's season premier scored 3.4 million viewers, so they retained some of the Vampire Diaries high ratings. 3.4 million is good for Supernatural, but compared to VD's 4 or so million, it could be better. Does any one remember what the ratings were for Lazarus Rising were last year? Is this an improvement, and do you think those ratings are good enough to help get us that fabled sixth season? I suppose when you compare it VD's ratings, it's only so-so. I hope the CW doesn't compare the two shows' ratings and decide that Supernatural is not worth keeping around for another season. But then, this is only the premier, so who's to say VD's ratings will continue to remain high, or that Supernatural's won't increase throughout the season.
Spoilerwolf
Ratings were 3.9 million or actually just slightly over 4 million.
My thoughts on the episode.
- the magic plane to get rid of Sam's blood addiction? Cop out. Total freaking crap.
- Sam being hit on the head with a plunger? awesome, lol.
- Dean calling Zach an asshat and a douche? teehee.
- Dean shutting Sam down on 'talking' like, five times? *slaps Dean upside the head* Shut up a your mouth
- Fangirl? haha, that was funny Lucky girl too
- possessed!Bobby's talk to Sam? Totally freaking heartbreaking And Dean not saying a word? *shakes head* I heard someone say it was like, Dean doesn't stand up to 'father' figures, and I think their right. Someone also said Dean's to wrapped up in his hurt by Sam to even think of defending him. Probably true.
- Meg - she was alright. Kicked Sam's and Dean's asses, so I was cool
- Sam not wanting to leave Bobby's side at the hospital? Awww... THAT'S the Sammy who we all love.
- Dean Michael's vessel? *yawn* Stupid, stupid, stupid.
- Dean refusing to allow Michael in even though Zach breaks Sam's leg? I didn't think of it at the time other than 'damn, I heard THAT bone snap' but now I also think 'huh. Wouldn't do it for Sam when his lungs got pulled out either....hmm...' or for Bobby in that matter also. Before, Dean would have done it so Sam wouldn't have been in that much pain (and I mean, he didnt' have freaking LUNGS! he wouldn't have survived but a few minutes) So.... I dunno. I wouldn't want to be a 'angel condom' either, but...
- Cas coming in and actually fighting? Made me laugh. He gets his ass handed to him by everyone and NOW he can fight? Lame.
- Dean's speech at the end? I get why Dean's upset with Sam, but a big of an elementary school answer: You picked a demon over me.
Well Dean, I think I'll break down my interpretation of that for you.
For me, that whole WTLB interaction at the end was never about Ruby - it was about control.
Dean wanted Sam to fall in line, do things 'his way' and put his foot down, trying to exert dominance over Sam.
Sam, on the other hand, tried the olive branch "come with us - we'll go after Lilith together." and Dean wouldn't have it, unless Sam killed Ruby, of which of course Sam couldn't, because Ruby is his slutty demon brewery. His connection to his addiction. It's like, a family member of an addict asking them to shoot their dealer in the face. Of course THAT'S not going to happen, so Dean gets his feelings hurt when Sam says he can't.
So when Dean hisses out his displeasure, and proceeds to rip strips off Sam's ass, he does more damage than had he given a little - his 'you are a monster' was, as the saying goes, 'the straw that broke the camel's back'. Sam was NOT going to bow down to authority - Dean or his father's - so Dean made the error of judgement in this scene.
For me (and probably for Sam) it was not about Ruby at all - it was about control (and lack thereof) as Sam had been stripped of control when Bobby and Dean locked him in the panic room. mentally, maybe all Sam could see was a cage if he went with Dean - going with his brother, Sam would lose all control he had (or thought he had).
*shrugs*
-So Dean is not my favorite person at the moment, from this episode, and I believe (and know) its going to get worse.
Let's hope he gets a wake up call eventually down the line.
Supernatralfan
I get what you mean. I pretty much agree w/everything you said. There are a lot of unhappy people about those major sticking points right now. Some people really loved it all, but I couldn't. The ending just sucked the fun for me. I'm hoping they'll knock that crap off soon b/c I can't take another angst filled, teenager type feud, pour out your hearts kinda season. This is SN, not a freaking soap opera. They can deal and mend w/out all that. They did it b/f. And we loved it. I miss the more in touch yet more reserved ways of S1-3 they used to deal w/such things. It's too much now. Should we do a count now of just how many times it's left off on Dean either angsting away in some speech or firing away at Sam when the credits role? Too many. I don't recall them ever doing that so much in the past. It's gotten old. Common man, start to mend some fences!
Supernatralfan
I have a wild idea and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get nailed for it, but here it is anyway.
Dean being the vessel makes no sense to me. Now hear me out, remember when Cas told Dean that he was sorry about the glass and the ears, the eyes, b/c he thought Dean could see/hear him? "Certain people, special people, can see and hear my true visage. I thought you would be one of them."
If he's supposed to be Mike's vessel, then shouldn't he be able to hear and see angels the way Jimmy could w/Cas?
If he is the vessel, someone has made a continuity boo boo.
jacklebug
Good point Amy. Dean is supposed to be "just a human" according to Zach, but weren't Jimmy and Claire just humans too? Maybe Cas assumed that because Dean was supposed to be Michael's vessel he'd be able to do those things, but because of whatever part of himself he lost in the pit, he couldn't any more. Maybe that has more to do with it than we realize. They keep emphasizing that part of him was left or died or whatever in Hell, so maybe that's the significance of all that.
Supernatralfan
It's hard to say. I'm hoping they do explain it in some way instead of glossing over it. EK has said, on the S4 commentary maybe?, that there are things they screw up in the show. That he knows it, and he hopes the fans don't pay attention. Yes. He said he hoped we didn't notice. The man is delusional. He knows this fandom picks apart everything.
So those plot holes of the past? We weren't supposed to catch on.
XxsupernaturalchicxX
Well I was finally able to watch the episode (Thank the lord for Tivo ) and I liked it until the end. Some parts were confusing, like the plane scene. I'm sure we'll have an explanation later down the road. It kinda made me upset when Dean was talking to Bobby in the hospital and he was so positive and upbeat about beating the apocalypse, but then he goes and says he said it for Bobby's benefit? I wish it could have been a "Hey the past is the past, but we're family and we stick together no matter what," sort of thing. But they have a few things to work out and that's understandable. However, things could have been said differently. Sam AND Dean both took part in the apocalypse. Even a few Angels helped to start it, so the blame should not be placed on one single person.
I don't want to watch Supernatural and be nervous the entire episode because I am expecting them to have a fight. I watched some of Season One this week and I really miss the bond they had then. Hopefully, they will be like that again. I really do hope so. It will just take some time. I have lots of nerves and concerns regarding the rest of this season...
On a postive note, the Limp!Sam was good.
jacklebug
Yeah. I know how much most of you love the Limp!Sam.
JarednJensengirl
Spoilerwolf wrote:
Sam IS in trouble in the next episode, being tortured. So we'll see what Dean does - I'll either literally toss him in the sh*t house, or I may actually give Dean a brownie - if he's a decent boy.
Oh yea. Is that when Jo pours the salt down his throat? Poor Sam.
It's so hard to try to explain how to feel about Sam and Dean and especially certain parts in SFTD. I did read and remember when someone mentioned how Dean didnt say anything when "Bobby" was ripping sama new one. Nada.
I can understand Dean's hurt but I have said this before it is NOT all sam's fault and I think the sooner dean starts to realize that the sooner it can start to get better.
He acknowledges that sam feels sorry and he believes him but the look of hurt that crosses sam' s face when dean said he didnt think he could trust him was miserable. can't wait for next week's eppy.
jacklebug
Poor Sam. How awful it must be for him to know that his beloved big brother no longer trusts him.
Really, Dean needs to get off his high horse and remember that that first seal had to break somehow, and that wasn't Sam's fault. If Dean hadn't been so afraid of being alone when Sam died, he never would have made that deal, gone to Hell, and broken that seal in the first place. And if Dean hadn't gone to Hell and broken that seal, I'm betting Sam could have iced Lilith at any time and not have caused the apocalypse as there had to be 65 other seals broken in order for Lilith's death to free Lucifer. And in order for the other 65 seals to start breaking, well that first one had to go, didn't it? I know we're not supposed to bash the characters on this show, but considering how Dean was with Sam in SFTD, I think he does deserve some criticism. At the very least, Sam needs to know Dean broke that first seal so he has someone to commiserate with, and know it was not entirely his fault. Sam may know Dean has to stop the apocalypse, but I don't think he knows Dean also got the ball rolling in the first place. If Sam finds that out from another source, he'll be pissed, especially considering how hard Dean came down on him for keeping secrets from him all through season 4, and now for starting the apocalypse.
Supernatralfan
I completely agree Jaclynn. I'm waiting on the fair part of SN to kick back in. I know when emotions are involved that gets sketchy, but really.
JarednJensengirl
I was reading somewhere. I cant remember but Ill try to find it, that Kripke said the boys will reconcile this season. I just hope we won't have to wait too long for it.
Supernatralfan
I know. I think we've waited long enough. I joined this show for the brothers, not the supernatural stories, no matter how good they might be. I'm ready for my boys to be family in the true sense again.
JarednJensengirl
Yup I second that Amy. =) I know it's not gonna be right away but even little things to show they are starting to get back to one another would be nice. alot of stuff happened and it would be naive to think any other way.
jacklebug
Someone just posted on the spoiler thread that they heard they should start reconciling around the 6th episode.
That’s right Bobby, you don’t give up, you just get better. He’s an idjit.
Freaking right. About time to let him win some. And he’s taught Dean some great moves like the banishing spell. Great job in giving them protective symbols on their ribs. Not just Dean, but Sam also. That goes a long way w/me. I’m glad everyone, Dean, Cas, Sam, are telling Zach and his pals to stuff it. And rightly so. I’m also pretty miffed that while everyone is placing blame on Sam, tho really I expect it from Zach to deny his fault in it and point the heavy finger at Sam, that Dean is the freaking vessel of Michael. I’m just... not sure how to take that. It’s like Dean is being set up to be the big hero and Sam is the scum on his shoe. I’m not loving that at all. This show is and I’d hoped would always be about brothers, not SuperDean and begging for a crumb of warmth and good storyline Sam. Get over it. I am. That’s all I’m gonna say about that...
She’s just so funny. Poor Chuck still on the mend from exploding Cas, and then he says “They’re real” “I knew it!” ahahah. She’s nuts. “You’re Sam.” “And you’re ... not what I expected.” “Becky, can you stop touching me?” “No.”
Get over yourself Dean! You are not perfect and you are far from blameless. What on earth has gotten into him? He's been different since coming back. I think the part of himself he left in the pit is the part that makes him have common sense and compassion for Sam. He's just acting so unlike himself. I don't understand what's happening to them anymore. I miss my boys as a family unit. Not them fighting each other.
We take all views. No need to be shy. I mean, we can't always agree can we?
